Interview with Utopies

An exchange with Antoine Joint of Utopies

"Hello Antoine, could you introduce yourself and Utopies?

Utopies is a CSR and sustainable development consulting firm. It was created thirty years ago by Elisabeth Laville, who is still at the head of the firm. We are a financially dependent firm and there are about 80 of us today. This is a fairly large firm on the subject of CSR and sustainable development compared to the French sector.

   We work with large companies, and more and more mid-sized companies, SMEs and startups. As well as local authorities and metropolises on all aspects of sustainable development and CSR: building CSR strategies, developing positive brand platforms, developing a culture of sustainable innovation, and building impact strategies.

   I've been with Utopies for eight years now. Before that, I was an information systems consultant, focusing on IT and transformation issues. I worked for Accenture for four years.

 

You've felt the demand grow quite strongly over the past few years. Is this very noticeable?

   Indeed, our sector is growing fast. We have achieved +20% growth over the last two years, and the same for the two previous years. We're growing organically, without having to invest, which is important for our independence. We really follow the market. It's true that since the end of 2019 there has been an acceleration in the climate.

   The health crisis has enabled some companies to reflect on their sustainability strategy and ask themselves some questions. In the end, we feared that this crisis would be a brake on sustainable development and CSR, as companies generally cut back on their CSR budgets during crises in order to focus on other things. But this was not the case.

 

Do you sense a sense of urgency in companies? Is it something that's built up over time? What analysis can you make?

   I don't think there is a real sense of urgency unfortunately, but there is a real awareness. Today, many companies and investors are saying that they are not doing anything about climate or CSR and that it is time to do something serious. It's a first step, the sense of urgency comes a little later with maturity and after an initial diagnosis.

   Once we start talking to executives about sustainability, there can be a real sense of urgency that can go as far as changing their business model or product catalog.

   Even if there is not a real sense of urgency yet, it is still a good sign that many companies are now committing themselves to CSR and that many investors are encouraging companies to commit themselves as well. Consumers are more aware and are demanding.

 

When you do an assignment for a company that doesn't have a CSR policy in place, how do you go about making progress with this type of customer? How do you break down the assignment to move the subject forward?

   If we take the example of a CSR strategy, the first thing to do is to carry out a diagnosis of the issues at stake, a materiality analysis. We conduct internal interviews with members of management. We ask them questions about how they perceive sustainable development in their business, what it will change, whether there are risks, opportunities and so on. Is it related to or opposed to their business?

   Then we interview external experts who have a more forward-looking or specific vision of certain issues, such as plastics, oceans and pollution. This is the first analytical framework that enables us to position issues according to their level of importance internally and externally, and their impact on the company.

   Next, it's a matter of summarizing. We identify the main issues, and establish the main pillars that will structure the strategy (supplier, internal and employee pillars). We put in place commitments, roadmaps, objectives and indicators, etc.

   The final step is to ask: How can we communicate this CSR strategy internally and externally? How can it be promoted?

 

Do you manage to follow through over time, to feel the impact of your assignments after a few months or years? Can you keep in touch?

   With certain companies, yes. We've been working with some of them for a long time, but unfortunately we don't keep up with them enough. The reason is that we're in a fairly short consulting cycle, with lots of different customers.

 

Have you implemented at Utopies everything you do at your customers' sites?

   At Utopies we try to be exemplary. We were the first company to be certified B Corp in France, and we have been leading the B Corp movement for 7 years. We have set up labels such as Great Place to Work, and we had the best rating of SMEs in 2018 in France. We set up a number of questionnaires for interns, such as Happy Trainees.

    Internally, we have several things in place: a shiatsu masseuse comes every week, we have yoga and sports classes with another firm, and we do a lot of seminars. We also rent an apartment next to our offices to accommodate people working in the region. We have a policy of encouraging cycling, and many other things.

 

It makes for great ideas! From an organizational and team point of view, has Covid changed your dynamic? How would you describe the before and after at Utopies?

   We used to do a bit of telecommuting: about two days each, depending on the consultants and activities. We were already used to working remotely. Covid enabled us to equip ourselves. We took the opportunity to equip ourselves with Stafiz because we needed better management with a digital solution.

   What has changed is that we do more seminars when we're not confined. We have more group get-togethers than we used to because we telecommute more too. We do wine tastings, champagne tastings in the evening, and so on.

   Now the policy is that everyone can do as they like about teleworking, you just have to be available for team and customer meetings. We are more flexible when it comes to job openings in the regions.

 

You've created more moments of exchange outside the frame.

   Yes, that's it. We organize seminars for the whole company, for the teams. We also rent out offices that are meeting places for teams.

   What has changed a lot are the events we organize with customers.

 

Do you still go on site a lot? Has this changed?

   Yes, things have changed a lot. Before, we used to organize a lot of breakfasts and do face-to-face conferences with our customers and partners. And now, like everyone else, we're mainly doing webinars. This has proved to be much simpler, and we're going to keep on doing it, because it allows us to reach a lot more people. Thanks to Covid, we're well equipped in this respect.

 

Is there a gap between webinars and face-to-face conferences? For the performance of the exchange and the commercial aspect.

Webinars aren't really a time for exchange. We take a topic and push it. We invite experts and customers. It's pretty top-down. So in this format, it's not a big deal. People like to register and access the replay to watch it whenever they want.  

With customers, there's much less face-to-face contact. Which is also a good thing when you think of the distance and travel involved. Companies are still quite open to remote meetings.

   But there are certain moments in the relationship with customers and the life of projects when it's better to see each other. Today, physical meetings are not totally out of the question. I have the impression that they'll be back from September 2021 and throughout the autumn, but unfortunately they're starting to happen less and less(date: December 21, 2021).

   The moments in projects where face-to-face, collective work is important are for building a climate action plan. We need to talk to each other, make certain things clear and exchange ideas. Doing it remotely is less effective. When it comes to sustainable development, people need to share their feelings in order to get involved.

 

In your opinion, will the consulting profession evolve over the next few years? What will the consulting profession look like in 5 or 10 years' time? What changes are already taking place? Will the approach remain the same?

In terms of form, there may be more people working freelance or in firms scattered right and left. This is already increasingly the case. Basically, the future in 10 years' time is very uncertain: some professions will disappear, new sectors will be created and developed (in energy, building construction, mobility, waste management, etc.), consumption will change, supply chains will be tighter and climatic hazards more frequent. I believe that the consulting profession will evolve to help companies meet these new challenges.

 

Do you already work with freelancers?

   Some of the freelancers we work with are recognized experts in their field, while others are former Utopies employees who have another activity on the side.

It's true that there are more and more hybrid teams. But we're also realizing that in consulting, it's not an option to be entirely independent: we're also looking for specialized expertise, rather than more generalist in-house profiles.

It's difficult to have a lot of freelancers, because team cohesion isn't as good. Our team works well because people know each other and are used to working together.

When you're working on 200 to 300 projects a year, there's a lot to learn from other assignments, customers and consultants. It helps to have an esprit de corps. With freelancers and those who live in the regions, it's more complicated, even if we manage to get together from a distance. For me, a disaggregated model that only brings together freelancers doesn't make a company. That said, it depends on the sector. There may be sectors where this model can work very well, or even better.

 

It's actually more complicated to create a corporate culture and commitment with this type of profile. When you leave Utopies and go to groups working in these areas, is it varied? Do you see any trends?

   It's quite varied. When you leave Utopies, you don't usually go to another consulting firm. Some go to work for in-house companies, in CSR departments. Others completely reorient themselves in more cultural professions, such as yoga. Some stay in the CSR field but go on to work in finance or international organizations, global organizations, etc. Some move on to consultancies with a different focus (large companies, social) or go freelance.

It's quite diverse and opens up a lot of possibilities! Thank you Antoine."

Our other customer interviews: Hystra, Youmeo, Calyans, Meja.